Thank God! Guns now allowed at Florida State Fair (how else to shoot rampaging teenagers?)

How did I miss this article? Love it–fabulous read and important news.

Sir:
I’m curious. Do you honestly believe that criminals have ever or will ever follow the signs posted prohibiting weapons? There is a reason they are called criminals. Why should a law abiding citizen be subject to the whims of a social misfit bent on harming another? Real simple, you don’t like the law, change it. If you can’t accomplish that then stay home or move to a state where criminals have free reign.

“Right, that’s who I want to trust my safety to. Itchy-trigger-fingered nuts from Thonotosassa.”

You should. Despite your ignorant negative portrayal of licensed carriers of firearms, the fact is that they do a much better job when it comes to using firearms to prevent crime than the police do. Police officers, despite being fewer in number themselves, commit more than 20 times the number of unlawful killings annually that license holders do. And even during lawful shootings they fire, on average, far more rounds. They also miss their targets far more often, and consequently hit far more innocent bystanders. Police officers get a much higher level of legal and financial immunity for bad or careless shootings than license holders, and are seldom prosecuted for them even when they can be, so on average they are more likely to resort to deadly force in a similar situation, and less careful in how they use it.

So, despite your characterization, licensed citizens, when compared to police, are not the ones with “itchy trigger fingers”. They are far less likely to resort to a gun when it is not appropriate, far less likely to use excessive force, far less likely to fire stray rounds, and far less likely to accidentally strike innocent people when they do shoot. Statistically, if you were present when a criminal needed to be shot to protect the public, unless you were the criminal you would be FAR safer if the responding person was a licensed citizen rather than a uniformed police officer.

But if you had actually bothered to look up real facts and statistics on such things, rather than just spewing out you bigoted hate and ignorance, you’d know that.

The law is the second amendment, it is non-negotiable. The state law states that licensed CCWL holders can carry, the Agriculture Commisioner ensured the state stayed in compliance with the law. Firearms owners are not crazy you cannot own a firearm if you have ever been declared via due process “mentally incompetent” or had committed a capital felony where your second amendment rights are stripped for life. These citizens are not criminals, nor are they irresponsible.

We will be getting with your boss. And news 4. Has I save all this,To show everyone. So I will awaiting moderation. To be scared of the church’s. For your evil racist of are Gods name.

Maybe you all would like to comment on this story about the 20 year old pastor’s daughter who died from an accidental gunshot wound. Undoubtedly the jackasses who thought it was a good idea to bring a gun to a church think also think it’s a good idea to bring a gun to a fair.

http://oldnortheast.patch.com/articles/pastor-s-daughter-dies-after-shooting-at-church

In a way, liberals shouldn’t say “gun control”, they should say “gun safety” because “control” has become too much of a “loaded term”, pun intended. I think that gun nuts don’t really care about gun safety, that’s why the debate should be addressed as “gun safety.”

Peter Schorsch said: “Maybe you all would like to comment on this story about the 20 year old pastor’s daughter who died from an accidental gunshot wound. Undoubtedly the jackasses who thought it was a good idea to bring a gun to a church think also think it’s a good idea to bring a gun to a fair.”

Maybe we should close all bars and liquor stores. People drink alcohol and then drive, or get into fights with spouses or children. How many people die due to drunk driving every year? How many cases of spouse abuse can be attributed to alcohol each year? Is it not against the law to drink and drive? Is it not against the law to beat your spouse? How many of the people engaged in these illegal activities pay attention to the laws? Do you still believe criminals will follow those “NO WEAPONS ALLOWED” sign? If so, what color is the moon on the planet from which you come?

You can not fix stupid, as your opinion piece proves. And making things illegal does nothing to solve problems.

Say it ain’t so Rich7553. Criminals didn’t heed the laws and killed people in churches? How could that be? Don’t all criminals pay attention to laws? Wonder how things might have turned out if one of the members had been armed…

Rich, you know as well as I, trying to teach sheeple reality is a battle worth fighting. Unfortunately sometimes they need to experience first hand the horrors that can befall an innocent victim, before they awaken.
Keep up the good fight sir.

Rich, all those tragedies happened as a result of gun nuttery and I don’t discriminate between the mentality of the killers and the mentality of the so-called “good” vigilantes who think they will prevent a tragedy by adding as many guns into the equation as possible. I mean I guess there are cases in which someone can have a gun if there is a rational reason like if they work somewhere where there is a lot of crime (even then security should probably done by a trained authority figure and not some average Joe), but in the vast majority of cases having a gun is not reasonable and makes things more dangerous. That paranoia and fear turns into the cult of gun nuttery and that leads to trouble. That’s why I blame gun groups like the NRA for creating the atmosphere that leads to these tragedies that they claim they are trying to stop by adding more guns. They have blood on their hands.

Albert Cirrus says:
February 20, 2012 at 12:20 am You can’t equate guns and cars, that is stupid. Cars aren’t made to kill, guns are. They are made to drive and are only dangerous when abused, guns are dangerous no matter what. Even then you have to jump through more hurdles to drive a car than to own a gun, so you gun nuts can stop playing victim.

You are looking at this the wrong way. Guns are no more dangerous than a hammer or a screwdriver or a plastic plate. They are tools nothing more or less. Put a fully loaded gun on a table and see if some how some way it “goes off”. I think you will find it will not. Automobiles are exactly the same thing. It is not the tool but the dimwit behind the tool. Cars aren’t made to kill, guns are? Yet there are over 80,000,000 guns owners out there, couldn’t even venture a guess as to how many guns. Care to compare the number gun deaths with vehicle deaths each year? Then tell me I can’t equate guns and vehicles. I’ll take my chances with gun owners as opposed to some clown walking out of a bar and getting into a vehicle.
Now you use the term “gun nuts”. You’re entitled, as this is a free nation with a Bill of Rights, which has a First Amendment. Last time I checked there is also a Second.( You might want to equate yourself with that brilliantly written document.) So, if people who carry weapons for self defense and protection for loved ones are “nuts”, what does that make people unwilling or uncaring enough to do the same? Cowards perhaps? Fools maybe? Nah, that’s not fair, I’ll just call them “easy targets.” Have a nice safe life. I hope neither you nor anybody you know is ever put in a position of having to defend themselves from a killer or rapist…

Hammers or screwdrivers don’t “go off” and kill the daughter of a pastor through the wall.

Albert Cirrus said,”Rich, all those tragedies happened as a result of gun nuttery.”

No, Albert. All those tragedies happened as a result of criminal action.

“I don’t discriminate between the mentality of the killers and the mentality of the so-called “good” vigilantes who think they will prevent a tragedy by adding as many guns into the equation as possible.”

Then you are doing everyone, including yourself, law enforcement, and the military a disservice by your comments. And for your information, no concealed carrier I know is a vigilante looking to prevent a tragedy. They are simply men and women who have taken the awesome responsiblity to protect the lives of themselves and their loved ones. If they are able to protect the life of a stranger when need be, then so be it. But they most assuredly do not deserve to be called vigilantes, and by applying that moniker, it proves you have no clue about whom you speak.

“I mean I guess there are cases in which someone can have a gun if there is a rational reason like if they work somewhere where there is a lot of crime (even then security should probably done by a trained authority figure and not some average Joe), but in the vast majority of cases having a gun is not reasonable and makes things more dangerous.”

Albert, where does violent crime occur? Where is the delineated “victim zone”? Has it occurred in a church? Yes. In a shopping mall? Yes. In a theater? Yes. Daycare center? Yes. College campus? Yes. School? Yes. Anywhere you can possibly think of, someone, somewhere has become a victim of violent crime there. The courts have ruled numerous times that law enforcement has no duty to protect any one individual, only society as a whole. Individual security is the responsibility of that individual.

“That paranoia and fear turns into the cult of gun nuttery and that leads to trouble. That’s why I blame gun groups like the NRA for creating the atmosphere that leads to these tragedies that they claim they are trying to stop by adding more guns. They have blood on their hands.”

Then you sir, are a fool. If your premise were true, then Chicago and Washington DC would be veritable paradises, devoid of violent crime. They aren’t. If your premise were true, then the huge increase in gun ownership over the last two decades would be reflected in rising violent crime rates. It doesn’t, and in fact, the violent crime rate is the lowest since the mid-60s. If your premise were true, then the Florida jails would be filled with ex-concealed carry license holders. They aren’t. In the 25 years since shall-issue concealed carry became law, over 2 million licenses have been issued. Care to guess how many have been revoked due to a crime with a firearm? 168. That’s 0.008%. Approximately 1 in 12,500. Approximately 0.02% of licensees have had their licenses revoked due to a felony or violent misdemeanor not involving a firearm. Compare that with 107,565 law enforcement officers in the FDLE database, of which 2,035 have been separated for moral code violations (essentially felonies). That’s 1.89%. The numbers don’t lie Albert.

So you can climb down off your high horse and acknowledge that you’re simply a gun-bigot. And there’s no 12-step program for that.

@Albert Cirrus has about as much access to the public through his misguided blog as I do with this comment post. The internet democratizes communication by eliminating previous barriers to mass distribution of information, opinion, or misinformation — they all go out as 1′s and 0′s. Albert’s seem to all remain 0′s.

I find it amusing and a bit sad that your instant response to a thoughtful point is “gun nut”; your instant response to a verifiable rebuttal is “gun nut”; your mantra is “gun nut”.

I invite you to actually go find out what you’re talking about some time… take a class from a professional firearms instructor (you can even think of him or her as a professional gun nut if it helps you deal with it), or even read data from a source such as the FBI.

My suspicion is you will do neither because in the back of your mind there’s a fear that your thesis might be flawed, and confronting the reality of that would invalidate the facade you’ve so carefully constructed, and it would all come tumbling down.

But while we’re waiting for either of those things to happen, please know this: Legally armed citizens come from all walks of life … we’re surgeons and attorneys, engineers and truck drivers, maybe even the person you dealt with this afternoon. And while you pick and choose your favorite aspects of the Constitution, we believe you have the right to express your opinion because we support the entire Constitution, even when we disagree to this extent.

:rofl

@Rich7553,

Wow, that’s very good stuff.

Well stated and well written.

Thanks.

AD

Awe, someone couldn’t handle the truth and facts in a debate, hopefully the whaaaambulance will arrive shortly to care for them.

Oh well, reading this has made me hungry. Off to find some Bacon and maple syrup.

Wow, the gun nuts clearly have hijacked this story. Just because a handful of gun nut trolls post some Orwellian propaganda and insults and then mindlessly agree with each other doesn’t mean that they won. Guns are dangerous period. It’s time for good people to stand up and push for more gun safety legislation.

A girl is dead in a church, that should be motivation alone.

Looks like some ill-informed lefties once again want to tell everyone else how things should be. Looks like they were wrong again. No incidents at the fair and I could make the case that this was because of all of the legal guns. The bad guys truly are frightened.

I went a little light this year as I knew some of my friends were going to be there too; Glock 26 in an ankle holster, Glock 23 on my hip. Tactical bag with a Glock 19 and 8 full magazines, a 12″ straight blade, 3 1/2″ tactical folder, and pepper spray. Girlfriend had a Glock 19 on her hip and a bag with a folded Kel-Tec carbine chambered in Glock 9mm with 5 full 33 rounds magazines, pepper spray and a couple of folders. God I love that woman!

Since the fair had no problems at all, I’ll just go ahead and say you’re welcome in advance.

Liberals, I got your back!

Like I said, the gun nuts have hijacked this story. They are not a representation of most people and not even gun owners, most people agree with me about gun safety. The good guys in this scenario like me want the guns out of the hands of the bad people, the gun nuts of course will never admit that they are the ones who support arming the bad people.

And another point, the Second Amendment isn’t about individual gun rights, it’s about “well regulated militias” and today we have them in the form of the military and other “regulated” organizations that use guns for protection. In fact I believe the Second Amendment allows governments to put regulations on guns for safety purposes. The gun nuts don’t like those rules and think the amendment gives them some sort of “right” to do whatever they want which is wrong. So my question to gun nuts is: why do you hate the Second Amendment? I’m tired of your lies and your propaganda and it’s time to fight back.

Why are there so many gun nuts here? It’s like one of you guys found a bunch of fellow cult members and told them to come here to spout propaganda. I refuse to believe that these opinions are a representation of the public or even rational gun owners, who I support. Most people don’t believe a gun is just a “tool” like a hammer or a screwdriver, that is insane. A gun is specifically designed to kill (or severely maim), you can’t rationally equate a gun with another tool. That is why I label you guys “gun nuts” and I’m proud of it.

heres something else from thomas jefferson that might strike a cord albert…

“He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”

in my own words what makes it worse is spreading those falsehoods and defending ones own errors in an effort to make others fearful…

Glockinator, then they should hire a freaking guard or two! Especially one with credentials.

Hey Cirrus, churches are volunteer organizations. I volunteer to shoot the armed robbers.

by the way, albert….

some of your responses seem a bit frustrated and overly excited….is your fear of guns related in any way to the possibility that you believe if you had one that you might be inclined to shoot someone with it?…if so….then wouldnt it be you who should be feared and not the gun?…

after all…it is our recreational use and ownership of guns that you are trying to control…so one would think we would be the excited ones as you are attacking us…yet we resort to reason and you to insult, accusation and fabrication…go figure…

Albert Cirrus said, “Like I said, the gun nuts have hijacked this story. They are not a representation of most people and not even gun owners, most people agree with me about gun safety. The good guys in this scenario like me want the guns out of the hands of the bad people, the gun nuts of course will never admit that they are the ones who support arming the bad people.”

Please Albert, enlighten us. Where did ANY of us support arming bad people? This is pure, unadulterated bovine excrement.

“And another point, the Second Amendment isn’t about individual gun rights, it’s about “well regulated militias” and today we have them in the form of the military and other “regulated” organizations that use guns for protection. In fact I believe the Second Amendment allows governments to put regulations on guns for safety purposes. The gun nuts don’t like those rules and think the amendment gives them some sort of “right” to do whatever they want which is wrong. So my question to gun nuts is: why do you hate the Second Amendment? I’m tired of your lies and your propaganda and it’s time to fight back.”

Perhaps you were unconscious for the last two Supreme Court decisions which declared that the right to keep and bear arms was both fundamental, individual, and independent of any militia service. But you are right about one thing. The Second Amendment does not give us the right to do whatever we want. The right to self-defense is inherent, does not come from government, and predates the Bill of Rights. The Second Amendment both recognizes and protects that right.

“Why are there so many gun nuts here? It’s like one of you guys found a bunch of fellow cult members and told them to come here to spout propaganda. I refuse to believe that these opinions are a representation of the public or even rational gun owners, who I support. Most people don’t believe a gun is just a “tool” like a hammer or a screwdriver, that is insane. A gun is specifically designed to kill (or severely maim), you can’t rationally equate a gun with another tool. That is why I label you guys “gun nuts” and I’m proud of it.”

What a lie! You don’t support rational gun owners. It is transparent by your posts. Most people do indeed view guns as tools. You don’t, that much is sure. And if you’re proud to label us as gun nuts, then you are most assuredly a fool who doesn’t mind being public in his foolishness.

Your assertions are ridiculous and unsubstantiated. You continue to provide only rhetoric and personal bias without so much as a shred of unbiased information. You rant, you rave, you insult, you name-call, you whine, you snivel, you claim to be able to infer the mindset of those who have disputed you drivel, and then you have the utter gaul to ask why you are completely outnumbered here? Perhaps it is because YOU ARE WRONG!

I’ll tell you what. Google “Raging Against Self Defense” by Sarah Thompson, MD. I believe you’ll find yourself in that essay.

In the vernacular of today’s net culture, you’ve been PWNED! Quit while you still have an iota of dignity left.

i fear ignorance more than any gun albert…quite frankly peole like yourself instill more fear in me than most criminals do….

arent you the one who is using incidents of criminals with guns to justify making others scared of guns?…instead of the criminals?…a criminal will commit their crime with whatever tool they can…if there were no guns they would beat people with sticks and use knives…they already do…its not the tool sir…its the person handling it…

the accident in the church was not because a gun was in the wrong place…it was because a person handled a gun negligently…a responsible gun owner does not do what that person did…period…the gun did nothing but what it was commanded to do by the person handling it…no differently than a car running someone over on a sidewalk…negligent operation is the crime….

“Thank the good Lord!

I can bring my gun to the Florida State Fair.”

Q1: So what did you plead those felonies down to that you still have your 2A rights?
and
Q2: Were you born a douche bag or did you have to work at it?

I think I’m done here, none of you guys seem to listen to my truth cause you are too committed to your ideology and propaganda. You are in a cult, there is no reasoning with you. You guys just want to instead shoot the messenger (pun intended). You guys lost your argument from the very beginning with your “a gun is like a hammer or a car” nonsense and you have just expanded that theme a little. I know right now the law is in your favor, but that is only for now. Like I said we need more pro-gun safety politicians in office to make us safer and stop you guys from harming us. Bye!

@Albert
So in your Ideal world Albert, Florida and the U.S. in general should adopt laws like the one below. I left Out the County and the Year. Lets See if you can actually Get the point on this one.

“citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to “…persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit.” Under the new law:
Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, “The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition.”[4]
The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded. Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions. Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.[5]
The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18.[5]
The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.[5]
Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or ownership of firearms and ammunition.”

So We have now limited the purchase and carrying of a firearm from anyone not deemed “Trustworthy” in the Government’s eyes, OHH Yeah lets not skip over that last Sentance. Tell me something How’d it work out for them??

Oops, disregard. My apologies to the blog owner.

Albert Cirrus said, “I think I’m done here, none of you guys seem to listen to my truth cause you are too committed to your ideology and propaganda.”

Truth Albert? Really now. You have been afforded more than ample opportunity to provide truth. You hae instead provided unsubstantiated rhetoric. Perhaps Pravda would be the more appropriate term here.

“You are in a cult, there is no reasoning with you.”

When you provide reason, people will listen. You have failed to provide any reason whatsoever.

“You guys just want to instead shoot the messenger (pun intended).”

Castrated the messenger would be more accurate.

“You guys lost your argument from the very beginning with your “a gun is like a hammer or a car” nonsense and you have just expanded that theme a little.”

You’re right, Albert. A hammer and car are not protected by the Bill of Rights.

“I know right now the law is in your favor, but that is only for now.”

Gun control had its chance. It failed miserably and only produced more citizen victimization. Beautiful cities across America have turned into crime-ridden dumps because people like you mistakenly believed that criminals couldn’t get guns regardless of law. Thousands of law-abiding citizens were killed, injured, raped, and robbed because some government bureaucrat thought it would be a good idea to deny them the ability to defend themselves. The law is now in our favor because the people are waking up and refusing to be victimized any more.

“Like I said we need more pro-gun safety politicians in office to make us safer and stop you guys from harming us.”

Politicians across the country are realizing that embracing gun control is a political death sentence. Even Obama has remained silent despite pressure from the Brady Campaign and other gun-bigot groups. Face it Albert. Gun control is in its death throes, and rightfully so. It belongs on the scrap heap right next to the Edsel and wind turbines.

“Bye!”

Best thing you’ve had to say to this point.

Wow, my last post was deleted. I guess Albert the Wise gets the last word. So much for freedom of speech.

Bonz, I thought the same thing. The “newer comments” link is easy to miss.

Poor delusional Albert Cirrus… living entirely in his own head… no matter how many times people point out the logical flaws in his arguments or his intentional misrepresentations, he simply resorts to name calling.

Albert says: “These accidental shootings are a thousand times worse than shootings from criminals because all the people involved are innocent.”

Rational people respond: There are actually two flaws in that single sentence:
1. It was not an “accidental” shooting. It was a “negligent” shooting. Specific, improper actions were taken, which would have been avoided had they been following safety rules. And I know how much you despise actual logic, but just play along anyway … If you drink and drive, that is negligence. The people you crash into and possibly kill are dead because of the drunk driver taking specific actions that could have been avoided.

2. They are 1000 times worse? Really? So the family of a crime victim will only grieve at <0.1% the rate of the victim of a negligent shooting? Really, Albert? Even somebody as callous as yourself must realize that you are spewing utter nonsense and are being so astoundingly insensitive to crime victims.

I suggest that society could well do without your brand of blog-nut mentality.

And now you have moved your insults to the realm of terroristic accusations? It is so clear that you have absolutely nothing under the hood. I have yet to see anything resembling a reasoned argument from you. Instead, you continue to prattle on repeating the same tired insults.

One more thing, Albert, you are right, guns are different tools than cars. Cars accidentally kill 60 times as many people per year in this country than guns do. I assume someone as safety conscious as you surely does not own one of those killing machines on four wheels….

Albert, even knowing how you feel about me, if I were ever in the position to save your life from a bad guy with a gun, I would. This in spite of you calling me a gun nut, terrorist, cultist. You really don’t know the people you are demonizing. I am a Vietnam combat vet with more hours behind a gun than most twenty year cops. I am the last person I would want to face if I were a criminal. The great thing about our constitution is that it even protects those who don’t believe in it.